Amex's John Hayes discusses brand marketing
Branding banter
SepT 24, 2004
As chief marketing officer of American Express, John Hayes is responsible for global branding. He has spearheaded the launch of more than 200 products, including the American Express Small Business Network, Open and the Blue credit card. On the occasion of New York Advertising Week, Hayes spoke Thursday with The Hollywood Reporter editor-in-chief and publisher Robert J. Dowling to discuss branding and AmEx's recent initiatives with the Jerry Seinfeld/Superman "Webisodes" and NBC's "The Restaurant."
The Hollywood Reporter: You're a big advertiser, with huge budgets on network television, and the Seinfeld Webisodes are about as far away from television as you can get. How did you get involved with that?
John Hayes: The Internet is a great place to service our customers and acquire new ones. Driving traffic to our site is important. If we can drive people there and engage them when they're there, we know we can convert that to business. There was also interest in creating something new.
THR: But why spend money on this and not just run a commercial during the Super Bowl?
Hayes: You can get millions of people to watch your ad on the Super Bowl ... but (viewers) sought us out (on the Internet). They went there and got involved. To me, the challenge is not awareness, the challenge is engagement. I had people coming to the site and spending five minutes there. The first Webisode aired on NBC as content on a Thursday night. NBC was delighted to have Jerry back, and we were delighted to provide the content. We never expected this to air anywhere except on our site, but it took on a life of its own, and our philosophy is to go with the flow.
THR: Has it been the case that American Express is looking at the landscape and saying, "OK, network TV is expensive; we need to look at other methods"?
Hayes: If I say American Express, everyone would think freight forwarding, right? No? OK. But that's what the company started as 150 years ago. The company was 108 years old when we launched the first American Express card. You have to reinvent. Consumers are reinventing their lives. They used to come home and go to the mailbox first thing. Now, they come home and go to the electronic mailbox. We're trying to stay where the consumer is.
THR: Are you getting involved with film?
Hayes: Film has been a challenging area for us. There are conventions that, frankly, we don't buy into. Product placement is of no interest. To pay a film to have our product in it doesn't serve our needs. We're talking to people about producing content, and not so much from a product-placement standpoint. (We want) to look at what unique content can do.
THR: That seems to be the model: Brands want to get in on making product.
Hayes: If you're going to do a great job, you have to start with creative development. So the question is, does commercialism destroy creativity? The (short) reference to the card (in the Seinfeld Webisodes) wasn't a letdown. It was incorporated into the story in a seamless way. There are times we have gone too far and pushed our presence a little too hard. (On) "The Restaurant," there was a scene where Rocco (DiSpirito) says, "I think we better get Open, the Small Business Network, on the phone," and I think the kitchen was on fire at the same time. So, there are things we did and went, "Eeesh!"
THR: Generation X is suspicious of advertising, but Generation Y seems more accepting. How do you find that line that both will accept, while at the same time, not cross it?
Hayes: It's about trying to give creativity a chance to grow, then look for where the opportunities are that are seamless. We did that with the launch of Blue at the (free "Central Park in Blue" concert featuring Sheryl Crow.) We put that concert on for less than the cost of a commercial during the Super bowl as a trimulcast (on the Web, the radio and television simultaneously), which was a new idea.
THR: Let's talk about the role of the agency these days. How is that changing?
Hayes: As advertisers, as marketers, the greatest challenge for us is we want off-the-shelf solutions. As much as I'm sitting here talking about creating ideas from scratch, it's a lot of work to produce television programs, to produce a show in Central Park, to produce Webisodes. We don't want to ever see everything off-the-shelf, but we do think that there are things that could start to be institutionalized for us that would make our work load lighter. We're looking for agencies who can do that. We've created something internally -- the Integrated Agency Team.
THR: Do you think five years out from now that there'll be a greater predictability to what works when you're combining brands and entertainment?
Hayes: I think there's a lot of people focused on this and on how we bring entertainment and marketing together. When you see a success happen, everybody observes and says, "I'd like to be part of that." The fact is, in 2003, consumers spent more on buying media -- DVDs, pay-per-view -- than advertisers spent on advertising; that's telling you something. Consumers aren't just consuming, they're willing to pay for entertainment. The more that trend continues, the more marketers need to figure out how to reach those people and move our product.
THR: And, of course, to every project you say yes to, you have to say no to dozens of others.
Hayes: Absolutely. There's one other trend I think is worth noting -- a few weeks ago, I asked a group to tell me about their favorite Starbucks commercial.
THR: The point being, there are none.
Hayes: Somebody said, "Well, they're on every corner, they don't need one." But 10 years ago, they weren't on any corner. Brands are not being built on advertising. You're seeing this with more and more companies. If you fly Jet Blue, you talk about the experience. That's how you build brands today, through experiences.
THR: Ten years from now, how do you think marketing will have changed?
Hayes: I don't think it'll settle. It'll change and be much more robust, smarter and savvy than it is today. The fragmentation of the population is going to continue to grow, so we're going to see more selective ways of creating dialogues and engaging people, but I think the basic themes are going to stay the same. People are going to look for what entertains (them). Ultimately, it's going to be about creating experiences for people.
The Hollywood Reporter: You're a big advertiser, with huge budgets on network television, and the Seinfeld Webisodes are about as far away from television as you can get. How did you get involved with that?
John Hayes: The Internet is a great place to service our customers and acquire new ones. Driving traffic to our site is important. If we can drive people there and engage them when they're there, we know we can convert that to business. There was also interest in creating something new.
THR: But why spend money on this and not just run a commercial during the Super Bowl?
Hayes: You can get millions of people to watch your ad on the Super Bowl ... but (viewers) sought us out (on the Internet). They went there and got involved. To me, the challenge is not awareness, the challenge is engagement. I had people coming to the site and spending five minutes there. The first Webisode aired on NBC as content on a Thursday night. NBC was delighted to have Jerry back, and we were delighted to provide the content. We never expected this to air anywhere except on our site, but it took on a life of its own, and our philosophy is to go with the flow.
THR: Has it been the case that American Express is looking at the landscape and saying, "OK, network TV is expensive; we need to look at other methods"?
Hayes: If I say American Express, everyone would think freight forwarding, right? No? OK. But that's what the company started as 150 years ago. The company was 108 years old when we launched the first American Express card. You have to reinvent. Consumers are reinventing their lives. They used to come home and go to the mailbox first thing. Now, they come home and go to the electronic mailbox. We're trying to stay where the consumer is.
THR: Are you getting involved with film?
Hayes: Film has been a challenging area for us. There are conventions that, frankly, we don't buy into. Product placement is of no interest. To pay a film to have our product in it doesn't serve our needs. We're talking to people about producing content, and not so much from a product-placement standpoint. (We want) to look at what unique content can do.
THR: That seems to be the model: Brands want to get in on making product.
Hayes: If you're going to do a great job, you have to start with creative development. So the question is, does commercialism destroy creativity? The (short) reference to the card (in the Seinfeld Webisodes) wasn't a letdown. It was incorporated into the story in a seamless way. There are times we have gone too far and pushed our presence a little too hard. (On) "The Restaurant," there was a scene where Rocco (DiSpirito) says, "I think we better get Open, the Small Business Network, on the phone," and I think the kitchen was on fire at the same time. So, there are things we did and went, "Eeesh!"
THR: Generation X is suspicious of advertising, but Generation Y seems more accepting. How do you find that line that both will accept, while at the same time, not cross it?
Hayes: It's about trying to give creativity a chance to grow, then look for where the opportunities are that are seamless. We did that with the launch of Blue at the (free "Central Park in Blue" concert featuring Sheryl Crow.) We put that concert on for less than the cost of a commercial during the Super bowl as a trimulcast (on the Web, the radio and television simultaneously), which was a new idea.
THR: Let's talk about the role of the agency these days. How is that changing?
Hayes: As advertisers, as marketers, the greatest challenge for us is we want off-the-shelf solutions. As much as I'm sitting here talking about creating ideas from scratch, it's a lot of work to produce television programs, to produce a show in Central Park, to produce Webisodes. We don't want to ever see everything off-the-shelf, but we do think that there are things that could start to be institutionalized for us that would make our work load lighter. We're looking for agencies who can do that. We've created something internally -- the Integrated Agency Team.
THR: Do you think five years out from now that there'll be a greater predictability to what works when you're combining brands and entertainment?
Hayes: I think there's a lot of people focused on this and on how we bring entertainment and marketing together. When you see a success happen, everybody observes and says, "I'd like to be part of that." The fact is, in 2003, consumers spent more on buying media -- DVDs, pay-per-view -- than advertisers spent on advertising; that's telling you something. Consumers aren't just consuming, they're willing to pay for entertainment. The more that trend continues, the more marketers need to figure out how to reach those people and move our product.
THR: And, of course, to every project you say yes to, you have to say no to dozens of others.
Hayes: Absolutely. There's one other trend I think is worth noting -- a few weeks ago, I asked a group to tell me about their favorite Starbucks commercial.
THR: The point being, there are none.
Hayes: Somebody said, "Well, they're on every corner, they don't need one." But 10 years ago, they weren't on any corner. Brands are not being built on advertising. You're seeing this with more and more companies. If you fly Jet Blue, you talk about the experience. That's how you build brands today, through experiences.
THR: Ten years from now, how do you think marketing will have changed?
Hayes: I don't think it'll settle. It'll change and be much more robust, smarter and savvy than it is today. The fragmentation of the population is going to continue to grow, so we're going to see more selective ways of creating dialogues and engaging people, but I think the basic themes are going to stay the same. People are going to look for what entertains (them). Ultimately, it's going to be about creating experiences for people.
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