Ex-Trump Aide Sam Nunberg Thinks Mentor Roger Stone Will "Never Cop a Plea Deal"
"Roger is going to be indicted. He’s a critical piece for Mueller," says Donald Trump's former campaign advisor, who now calls the president "disloyal."
Sam Nunberg was a political advisor to Donald Trump during his 2016 presidential campaign and made headlines worldwide when he was subpoenaed by a grand jury to testify about Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation, then told reporters on MSNBC and CNN he’d rather be arrested than obey the subpoena.
He changed his mind and testified on March 9. With many in Hollywood and the media pining for the impeachment of the president, The Hollywood Reporter put the question of impeachment to Nunberg, who is arguably one of the more forthcoming of the dozens of people who have been made to testify about Trump’s alleged Russian collusion.
Conventional wisdom says you were fired from the Trump campaign for posting racist things on Facebook 11 years ago.
The pretext was a Facebook post that was leaked by Corey Lewandowski and Hope Hicks. The real reason was they wanted to push me out and Trump is a disloyal asshole. I only worked with him for four years and came up with a lot of the messaging, including the wall. It really worked out well for me to work for him. He has no loyalty to anyone. You saw that with Steve Bannon. I apologized for the inappropriate Facebook posts and Rev. Sharpton forgave me.
Will Trump be impeached?
If the Republicans do not hold the House, Donald Trump will be impeached.
What’s next for your mentor, Roger Stone?
Roger is going to be indicted. He’s a critical piece for Mueller. Some of these people will have already been found guilty by the time he presents his report to Congress. Trump is part of a conspiracy about a Russian hack. It’s a weak, circumstantial case, but we’ll see how many Republicans stand up for him in the Senate. Future Sen. Mitt Romney and Sen. John McCain will vote for impeachment. But Republicans will maintain control of the Senate.
What are the high crimes and misdemeanors Trump committed?
I have to be somewhat cryptic. The Mueller team wanted a lot of information from before the time when Trump brought me in as his first permanent campaign hire — concerning Trump, Michael Cohen and observations of the Trump organization. Mueller has a lot to work with, not necessarily from me, but he made a critical mistake when he indicted Paul Manafort on financial issues that had nothing to do with his work for Trump. He’s becoming more politically astute, so instead of indicting Cohen himself he farmed it out to the Southern District of New York. When Cohen cooperates, and I think he will, he’ll be cooperating with Mueller.
First of all, Trump was talking about Hillary Clinton’s 30,000 emails that she got away with, illegally, I think, wiping them from her server while she was secretary of state. The majority of emails leaked were from John Podesta, who pathetically fell for a phishing scam to reset his password, which was “password.” Mueller will do more indictments, including of Roger to make a splash before the end of August because there’s a 90-day rule where he can’t do anything to influence an election.
What does Stone know that will damage Trump?
I think what they’ll get from Roger is what they’re getting from Mike Flynn — that Trump was asking about Hillary’s emails during the election.
And asking about Clinton’s emails is a high crime?
I don’t believe so.
So then you don’t think Trump should be impeached?
Not by the case Mueller is going to present. Mueller is also completely conflicted. He interviewed with Trump the day before he became the special prosecutor. No one is innocent in this thing.
Are you innocent?
Then why won’t you tell me what you said in your testimony?
I’ll talk about questions that were asked during the voluntary; I will not talk about the grand jury except how it pertains to Roger Stone because Adam Schiff is trying to call me to the House intel committee and I don’t think I should have to go. Mueller and his team have all the information, and I’m not interested in giving out information about the case Mueller is building against Trump.
So the Russian collusion case boils down to Trump asking some Russian about Clinton’s email?
Yes. Maybe Flynn is saying that Trump wanted him to find out about them. But I don’t know.
Michael Wolff’s Fire and Fury book is going to be a TV series. Will your character be in it?
Michael told me Ari Emanuel told him I have to be in it. I hope I’m played by Zach Braff, because as a Jewish guy I don’t want to be, like, typecast by a guy like Seth Rogen. I’m very worried. If there’s anything I can do to help with my casting, I’m happy to do it.
You said Trump will be impeached if Democrats control the House. Will he be removed from office?
You get impeached at the House and the trial is in the Senate, where Trump will have lawyers defending him. In the Senate, there would have to be 67 votes. So part of the reason Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Nadler are doing it is to destroy Trump’s presidency. He’d be the first president to go through something like this during the second half of his first term. It will kill him on the world stage; any progress made with North Korea will be killed; and they’ll be doing the trial while the 2020 Democrat primary is taking place, so it will be a show trial.
And that will be a good thing for the country?
Absolutely not. That’s where this whole thing is bullshit. Mueller is biased. You know, [Vladimir] Putin is a thug who jails his enemies; Putin helps fix his so-called democrat elections. What do you think Mueller is doing here? He’s no better than Putin. Mueller, James Comey, former CIA director John Brennan — they think the ends justify the means and they’re disgusted by Trump. This is the reason Trump was elected — because of people like Mueller, Comey and Brennan, who, by the way, voted for the Communist party during the height of the Cold War.
So you have no love for Trump, but you disagree with much of Hollywood and the media that he should be impeached?
Look. Trump nominated Brett Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court. He worked for Ken Starr. Then he wrote in 2009 that Starr’s investigation wrongly affected the presidency and it might have even hurt Bill Clinton’s chances to kill Osama bin Laden. Donald Trump is not a perfect man by any sorts, but he’s not the first president who isn’t perfect.
I’m still confused as to what the high crime or misdemeanor is that will get Trump impeached.
They’ve been trying to get this guy impeached from the beginning. They’ll say he promoted the email hacking, and he used it to help him get elected, which is bullshit.
What about the theory that the Russians meddled to hurt both the Democrats and the Republicans, just to sow discord and weaken whoever won?
No. Putin wanted Trump to win because he hates Hillary.
Why does he love Trump?
Trump was talking about having a better relationship with Russia. The irony is that Trump has been tougher on Russia, if you judge him by his actions, than President [Barack] Obama was.
When Obama ran against Romney, Romney talked tough against Russia. Why didn’t Putin interfere to make sure Obama won?
Because Obama passed sanctions against Putin and he tried to strengthen NATO, and he had a different view of the world than Obama did. He sided with [former Russia Prime Minister] Dmitry Medvedev on Libya and Putin was scared, maybe rightly, that ISIS or another radical group would take over Syria.
So you do believe the Russians interfered and wanted Trump to win?
Yes. The issue is that Donald Trump did not collude with them. Trump is not part of a conspiracy and a circumstantial case should not impeach a president. The onus is on the people investigating, and they’re conflicted. In my grand jury, I was questioned by Jeannie Rhee, who assisted Aaron Zelinsky. Rhee represented Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation through her law firm, which Mueller worked at. She would be conflicted representing the president civilly but she can investigate him? Give me a fucking break.
You’re suggesting a conflict of interest?
The same people who say the terrorists at Gitmo deserve due process have a kangaroo investigation for Trump? I’m a lawyer. I’ve worked on Supreme Court cases. I have a problem with that. Would I be fighting for Hillary Clinton if this were happening to her? No, but I wouldn’t be supporting the investigation. You have to separate Trump the man from what his election represented — the forgotten man and woman. That’s why he flipped counties and was able to get union people who normally vote Democrat to vote for him.
So did you tell Rhee when you testified that she had a conflict?
No. I was in enough shit after what I pulled the Monday before my Friday grand jury. I did a whole publicity stunt.
So what? It’s a free country. You can do a publicity stunt if you want. Are you saying they held it against you?
No. They questioned me about my compliance with the subpoena.
Does your subpoena prohibit you from telling me what you told them?
No. But I’m not interested in them bothering me for putting out their case. And it’s not fair to the taxpayers who are funding this case.
After Stone, who will be indicted next?
Well, they’ll see if Michael Cohen will cooperate with Mueller, and I think he will by the end of the month.
Will Stone cooperate?
He will fight to the end and never cop a plea deal. I don’t know specifically what he knows, but I’ll tell you a question they asked me was how often Roger and Trump communicated during the campaign. I don’t think very much once Steve Bannon controlled the campaign in the final two months.
Are you and Stone still close?
I am, in my opinion, but I’m not going to talk to him because he has zero legal savvy. Roger can hurt himself by talking to me. You see what happened to Paul Manafort? He’s in jail for manipulating a witness or whatever.
What else did they ask you in your voluntary interview?
What did I know about the Trump organization, his business, and, I’ll put it this way, what did I know about his private life. It’s public that they’re looking into the Stormy Daniels payment. They asked me about Michael Cohen’s business and his relationship with Trump. They look at him as a target — someone they can flip. And it was clear when they questioned me they already had access to Trump-org emails and documents and to Roger Stone’s emails. They gave it away with questions they asked.
What’s your ultimate prediction?
You’ll know if Donald Trump will be impeached out of the House the day after the mid-term elections. Expect impeachment if Democrats control the House.
Even if Mueller doesn’t find he committed any crimes?
Mueller is on a vendetta and is going to build a circumstantial case. You ever see A Beautiful Mind? It will look like John Nash’s office.
Is the media covering this properly?
As a Republican, I actually think that the best coverage of this is on MSNBC. I have never been on MSNBC where they’ve told me you can’t say this or that. I haven’t been on Fox News, but they are not examining what’s going on. They’re just in the business of kissing Trump’s ass.